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Tony Hsieh on self-management and culture: interview summary

Tony Hsieh explains why he sold Zappos and what he thinks of Amazon. (Full Interview)

On with Kara Swisher · May 24, 2016 · about 47 min

Uploaded May 24, 2016 · 85K views (as of Oct 30, 2026)

Some value given

Zappos had about 1,600 employees and was getting bureaucratic.
Hsieh says innovation per employee had slowed.
Self-management aims to turn each team into a self-organized circle.
Zappos agreed to Amazon's deal only if it could keep its own culture.
He uses a greenhouse metaphor for leadership.

Why did Zappos move to self-management?

Hsieh says that as Zappos grew to about 1,600 employees in Vegas, it was getting more bureaucratic and innovation per employee had slowed. Self-management and self-organization aim to make each team act more like a small company, the way cities keep innovating as they grow.

Worth watching?Some value given. Hsieh explains Zappos's move to self-management and its deal with Amazon. Interesting on structure, a bit abstract in places.

ActionableLessons

Actionable

Track one measure of innovation per person on your team.
Give one team full control over a decision.
When selling or partnering, write the culture terms you won't give up.
Think of yourself as tending a greenhouse instead of directing a factory.

Lessons

Growth breeds bureaucracy.
Self-organizing teams can move faster.
Culture is worth protecting.
Leaders create conditions.

Quick answer

Tony Hsieh sat down with On with Kara Swisher for this interview, published May 24, 2016. Here's our summary in our own words: a verdict, the answer to the big question, 5 takeaways, Actionable and Lessons tabs, then the stories, frameworks and how to use them.

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Watch the interview

Watch on YouTube: Tony Hsieh explains why he sold Zappos and what he thinks of Amazon. (Full Interview)

Channel: On with Kara Swisher. Published May 24, 2016. About 47 minutes.

Who is Tony Hsieh?

Tony Hsieh was CEO of Zappos and sold it to Amazon in 2009.

This is an interview with Kara Swisher.

Key stories from the interview

He explains Teal and self-management.
He describes Amazon as like a board of directors.
He uses the greenhouse analogy.
He takes questions from the audience.

Frameworks and ideas

Self-management.
Innovation per employee.
Greenhouse leadership.
Independent culture.

In their words (paraphrased)

We were just getting more bureaucratic.
It's about self-management and self-organization.
If we can have our own separate culture.

How to apply this

Count the approvals needed for a typical decision.
Let one team set its own goals for a month.
Write your culture's three must-keep traits.

Read the biography

Want the longer story? Read our Delivering Happiness summary.

A note on this summary

This page reports what was said in the interview, in our own words. Lines under 'In their words' are paraphrased from the transcript, so check the video for exact wording.

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FAQ: questions people ask

Why did Zappos try self-management?

It was getting bureaucratic as it grew, and innovation per employee slowed.

What did Zappos ask from Amazon?

To operate independently with its own culture.

Is the Tony Hsieh Kara Swisher interview worth watching?

Some value given. Interesting but abstract.